,9T]VIEW ) ,ABDULLAH ,OCALAN 

#aiih 

,PEOPLE 3 

,AU?OR 3 ,ABDULLAH ,OCALAN 

,TEXT 3 

,ABDULLAH 7,APO7 ,OCALAN IS ! F\ND] & LEAD] ( ! ,P>TIYA ,K>K>5 ,KURDI/AN 7,P,K,K7 OR ,KURDI/AN ,WORK]S ,P>TY1 AN ORGANIZATION ! ,U4,S4 GOV]NM5T DEEMS TO BE T]RORI/4 ,BORN >\ND #aidh 9 S\!A/]N ,TURKEY1 ,OCALAN WAS A SOMETIME /UD5T 9 POLITICAL SCI5CE AT ,ANK>A ,UNIV]SITY 9 #a#i#f#g#h1 :]E HE BEGAN TO =M HIS IDEAS ON ,KURDI% NATIONALISM4 ,OCALAN CREAT$ ! ,P,K,K 9 ,NOVEMB] #a#i#g#h1 MOV$ TO ,SYRIA 9 ,MAY #a#i#g#i1 & BEGAN ! CURR5T W> AGA9/ ,TURKEY 9 ,AUGU/ #a#i#h#d4 ,BY ! SPR+ ( #a#i#i#h1 ! ,P,K,K'S ACTIVITIES HAD L$ TO MORE ?AN #c1 VILLAGES P>TIALLY OR TOTALLY DE/ROY$1 #b#g1 DEA?S1 & UP TO #c MILLION PEOPLE DISPLAC$4 ,MI*AEL ,M4 ,GUNT]1 PR(ESSOR ( POLITICAL SCI5CE AT ,T5NESSEE ,TE*NOLOGICAL ,UNIV]SITY & AU?OR ( ?REE BOOKS ON ,KURDI% ISSUES1 9T]VIEW$ HIM 9 ,DAMASCUS ON ,M>* #a#c#a#d1 #a#i#i#h4 

,9,T,],V,I,E,W,]',S ,9,T,R,O,D,U,C,T,I,O,N 

,MY VISIT TO ,SYRIA BEGAN BY MY OBTA9+ A /&>D S+LE5TRY T\RI/ VISA TO ! C\NTRY1 :I* ,I DID )\T ANY POLITICAL CONTACTS OR SPONSOR%IP BY ! ,SYRIAN GOV]NM5T4 ,I PAID MY [N WAY & FLEW 9TO ,DAMASCUS ON ,BRITI% ,AIRWAYS4 ,HAV+ AL]T$ ! ,P,K,K 7VIA CONTACTS 9 ,BRITA97 TO MY >RIVAL1 ,I WAS MET AT ! ,DAMASCUS AIRPORT BY ,P,K,K OP]ATIVES4 

,ON EA* ( MY TWO DAYS ( DISCUSSIONS ) ,ABDULLAH ,OCALAN1 ,I WAS DRIV5 FROM MY HOTEL 9 D[NT[N ,DAMASCUS VIA A CIRCUIT\S R\TE TO MY DE/9ATION2 PRESUMABLY1 ! R\NDAB\T TRIP WAS TO PREV5T ME FROM KN[+ EXACTLY :]E ,I WAS GO+4 ,! FIR/ MEET+ TOOK PLACE 9 A L>GE AP>TM5T 9 ! ,KURDI% SECTION ( ,DAMASCUS4 ,! SECOND ONE TOOK PLACE A %ORT DI/ANCE \TSIDE ( ,DAMASCUS1 9 A NONDESCRIPT /RUCTURE (F A MA9 HI<WAY4 ,9SIDE ! WALL$ COMP\ND1 ,I F\ND A SURPRIS+LY IMPRESSIVE VILLA & G>D54 ,>M$ GU>DS KEPT WAT* FROM ! RO( ( ! VILLA4 ,ATTA*$ TO ! VILLA COMP\ND WAS ANO!R1 L>G]1 WALL$ COMP\ND CONTA9+ SIMPLE LIV+ QU>T]S = SOME #ag MALE & FEMALE FI<T]S1 AN OP5 GRE5 >EA1 A CEM5T$ A?LETIC >EA1 & A LIFESIZ$ GILD$ /ATUE ( ,MAZLUM ,KORKMAZ1 A ,P,K,K H]O4 ,! COMP\ND ALSO SEEMS TO BE A PLACE = RE/ & RECREATION2 ,I MET SEV]AL W\ND$ FI<T]S !RE1 9CLUD+ 

ONE :O ASK$ ME TO S5D HIS REG>DS TO RELATIVES LIV+ 9 ,GREAT ,BRITA94 ,I WAS 9=M$ ?AT ?IS COMPLEX IS A ,KURDI%LANGUAGE POLITICAL TRA9+ S*OOL4 ,I LE>N$ ?AT A SIMIL> ,TURKI% LANGUAGE POLITICAL TRA9+ S*OOL EXI/S 9 ! VIC9ITY BUT DID NOT SEE IT4 ,I ALSO HE>D AB\T A MILIT>Y TRA9+ CAMP 9 ! ,BEKAA ,VALLEY1 ,LEBANON1 BUT DID NOT VISIT IT EI!R4 

,EA* ( MY MEET+S ) ,OCALAN LA/$ = SOME SIX H\RS & WAS 9T]RUPT$ BY LUN*4 ,EA* DAY1 ,OCALAN HAD ME WAIT :ILE HE ATT5D$ TO O!R BUS9ESS4 ,! FIR/ DAY1 ,I WAIT$ AB\T AN H\R AS HE MET ) TWO P>LIAM5T>IANS ( ! ,P,A,S,O,K ,P>TY1 ! ,GREEK SOCIALI/S 7:O LAT] JO9$ US = LUN*74 ,! SECOND DAY1 HE EXCUS$ HIMSELF IMM$IATELY AFT] LUN* = A TELEPHONE CALL ) HIS SUBORD9ATES ?AT LA/$ AB\T AN H\R & A HALF4 

,I F\ND ,OCALAN AN 5GAG+ & POLITE HO/4 ,DUR+ LUN* BREAKS1 = EXAMPLE1 HE %[$ ME ! PIGEONS HE KEEPS4 ,HE ALSO LET A HONEY BEE ALI<T ON HIS F+] & MUS$ H[ IT WAS 0HALF SWEET & HALF POISON40 ,ON MY SECOND DAY1 ,I WAS 9VIT$ TO PLAY VOLLEYBALL & SOCC] ) ,OCALAN & HIS FOLL[]S4 ,:5 =MALLY POS+ = A PICTURE1 ,OCALAN TURN$ DEADLY S]I\S & RA!R WOOD5 BUT AT O!R TIMES HE SMIL$ EASILY4 ,HIS CONV]SATION WAS (T5 V]Y ANIMAT$4 ,HE %[$ A SURPRIS+ KN[L$GE ( 9T]NATIONAL T5NIS />S1 DEEM+ ,&RE ,AGASSI HIS FAVORITE BUT ALSO TALK+ AB\T ,JIM ,C\RI]1 ,L9DSAY ,DAV5PORT1 ,M>T9A ,H+IS1 ,M>T9A ,NAVATILOVA1 & ,PETE ,SAMPRAS4 ,OCALAN TOLD ME ?AT HE ADMIRES T5NIS BECAUSE 0IT 9VOLVES /RATEGY AS WELL AS /R5G? & P[]40 

,I WAS P]MITT$ TO TAKE MANY PHOTOGRAPHS & TO TAPE RECORD EA* MEET+ 9 ITS 5TIRETY4 ,9 ! FIR/ MEET+1 ,OCALAN SPOKE 9 ,KURMANJI ,KURDI%1 A LANGUAGE ,I WAS TOLD HE HAD REC5TLY LE>N$ TO SPEAK MU* BETT]2 ! SECOND DAY1 HE SPOKE 9 ,TURKI%4 ,! DISCUSSIONS ON BO? DAYS W]E R5D]$ SOME:AT AMATEURI%LY 9TO ,5GLI% BY TRANSLATORS ,OCALAN PROVID$4 

,:Y DID ,OCALAN AGREE TO SEE ME & PROVIDE EXT5SIVE TAP$ REM>KS8 ,PROBABLY BECAUSE HE SAW ME AS A 

USEFUL VEHICLE BY :I* TO CONVEY HIS ?\<TS TO A PRIM>ILY ,AM]ICAN PUBLIC4 

,:Y1 GIV5 ?AT ! ,SYRIAN AU?ORITIES R\T9ELY D5Y ,OCALAN'S PRES5CE ON ,SYRIA T]RITORY1 DID HE 7& IMPLICITLY1 !Y TOO7 ALL[ ME TO SEE & PHOTOGRAPH HIM 9 ,SYRIA8 ,I CAN ONLY SPECULATE ?AT IT MI<T HAVE BE5 TO S5D A SIGNAL TO ! ,TURKS4 ,ALL ,I CAN SAY = SURE IS ?AT NO ONE 9 ! ,P,K,K EV] REQUE/$ ?AT ,I NOT M5TION :]E ,I HAD MET ,OCALAN4 

,T,U,R,K,E,Y 

,M,E,Q3 ,:Y DO Y\ FI<T AGA9/ ,TURKEY8 

,OCALAN3 ,9 ,TURKEY1 !Y SAY !RE >E NO ,KURDS1 ?AT !Y DON'T EXI/4 ,! GOV]NM5T SAYS ?IS4 ,EV5 ! PR(ESSORS AT UNIV]SITIES SAY ?IS4 ,! ,TURKS DON'T WANT TO ACCEPT ! ,KURDS2 !Y WANT TO F9I% .<).> !M4 ,TURKEY ONLY ACCEPTS ! ,KURD :O D5IES HE IS A ,KURD4 ,! #g1 ,VILLAGE ,GU>DS .<,TURKI% ,KURDS >M$ BY ! GOV]NM5T TO SUPPORT ! GOV]NM5T.> :O CLAIM !Y >E ! BE/ ,TURKS CANNOT EV5 SPEAK GOOD ,TURKI%4 .<LAU<S.> ,TURKEY'S OB/9ATE1 IGNORANT REFUSAL TO NEGOTIATE ) ME HAS L$ TO A CULDESAC IT CANNOT GET \T (4 ,ONLY A DIALOGUE BETWE5 ,TURKEY & ITS ,KURDS CAN GET ! VICTIMS \T ( ?IS CONT9U+ TRAP4 

,M,E,Q3 ,H[ HAVE Y\ BE5 ABLE TO KEEP UP ! FI<T = SO LONG8 

,OCALAN3 ,ANYONE :O ?9KS AS A ,KURD 9 ,TURKEY IS ) ! ,P,K,K4 ,IF ,TURKEY F9I%ES ! ,P,K,K1 !N IT WILL HAVE ONLY ! WALL TO TALK TO4 ,I USE ,TURKI% /UPIDITY TO BUILD A ,KURDI% MOVEM5T4 ,?IS IS V]Y IMPORTANT4 ,TURKEY'S H>%1 IGNORANT TREATM5T ( ! ,KURDS HAS HELP$ GIVE BIR? TO A GREAT] S5SE ( ,KURDI% NATIONALISM4 ,I USE ,TURKI% MI/AKES TO BUILD UP MY P[]4 

,M,E,Q3 ,:AT TYPE ( SETTLEM5T DO Y\ SEEK ) ,TURKEY8 

,OCALAN3 ,I ACCEPT ! CURR5T ,TURKI% BORD]S4 ,NOBODY WANTS ,TURKEY TO BE DIVID$4 ,?IS IS V]Y IMPORTANT6 ,I WANT TO NEGOTIATE A JU/1 DEMOCRATIC SOLUTION TO ?IS TW5TYYE>OLD /RUGGLE4 ,! ,TURKS MU/ ACCEPT ! ,KURDI% ID5TITY4 ,!Y %\LD SAY 9 ! CON/ITUTION ?AT !RE >E O!R PEOPLE 9 ,TURKEY & ACCEPT A F$]AL SY/EM1 AS 9 ! ,UNIT$ ,/ATES1 ,G]MANY1 ,SWITZ]L&1 ,BELGIUM1 & ,SPA94 

,M,E,Q3 ,H[ CAN F$]ALISM WORK 9 ,TURKEY :5 MORE ?AN HALF ! ,TURKI% CITIZ5S ( ,KURDI% E?NIC H]ITAGE NO LONG] LIVE 9 ! S\!A/8 

,OCALAN3 ,IT IS A QUE/ION ( GOOD WILL & T]M9OLOGY4 ,WE CAN F9D A SOLUTION4 ,:5 ! EXI/5CE ( ! ,KURDS IS ACCEPT$1 #g P]C5T ( ! .<,KURDI%.> PROBLEM WILL HAVE BE5 SOLV$4 

,M,E,Q3 ,IF ,ATATURK W]E ALIVE TODAY1 :AT DO Y\ SUPPOSE HE W\LD DO TO SOLVE ! ,KURDI% PROBLEM8 ,&REW ,MANGO1 A ,BRITI% HI/ORIAN WRIT+ A BIOGRAPHY ( ,ATATURK1 SAYS HE W\LD ALL[ SOME LOCAL GOV]NM5T & EXPRESSION = ,KURDS :ILE SEEK+ TO KEEP !M UND] ! ,TURKI% RO(4 

,OCALAN3 ,WE HAVE TWO ,ATATURKS1 ! ONE BE=E & AFT] #a#i#b#e4 ,BE=E #a#i#b#e1 ,ATATURK TOOK A MORE POSITIVE ATTITUDE T[>DS ! ,KURDS4 ,BUT AFT] ?AT DATE1 HE BEGAN A V]Y NEGATIVE POLICY4 ,IF ,ATATURK W]E ALIVE TODAY1 H[EV]1 HE W\LD NOT ACT LIKE ! ,TURKI% LEAD]S >E N[4 ,HE W\LD SEE ! BANKRUPT RESULT ( HIS POLICY & *ANGE IT4 ,I AGREE ?AT IF ,ATATURK W]E ALIVE TODAY1 HE W\LD *ANGE ,TURKEY'S POLICY4 

,M,E,Q3 ,:AT ,TURKI% POLITICIANS DO Y\ ?9K MI<T BE WILL+ TO NEGOTIATE A POLITICAL SOLUTION ) Y\8 

,OCALAN3 ,NONE ( !M >E READY4 .<,=M] ,TURKI% PRESID5T ,TURGUT.> ,OZAL WANT$ A POLITICAL SOLUTION1 BUT !Y .<ELEM5TS 9 ! ,TURKI% MILIT>Y AGA9/ A POLITICAL SOLUTION.> KILL$ HIM4 ,!Y ALSO KILL$ .<=M] G5D>M]IE =CES COMM&] ,ESREF.> ,BITLIS4 

,M,E,Q3 ,:AT W\LD A POLITICAL SETTLEM5T MEAN = ! FUTURE ( ,TURKEY8 ,WILL ,TURKEY'S GRANT+ :AT Y\ CONSID] TO BE G5U9E DEMOCRACY TO ALL ITS CITIZ5S SOLVE ITS ,KURDI% PROBLEM & SAVE ! C\NTRY1 OR W\LD IT SIMPLY 5C\RAGE MORE ,KURDI% DEM&S & EV5TUALLY BREAK UP ,TURKEY8 

,OCALAN3 ,A DIALOGUE BETWE5 ,TURKEY & ! ,P,K,K FOLL[$ BY AN AGREEM5T W\LD BE GOOD = ,TURKEY & MAKE IT /RONG]4 ,ALL ,I AM ASK+ = IS REAL DEMOCRACY 9 ,TURKEY4 ,I AM MORE ,TURKI% ?AN ! ,TURKI% LEAD]S6 

,M,E,Q3 ,H[ MU* HAS ! ,P,K,K BE5 HURT BY ,TURKI% MILIT>Y ACTIONS 9 S\!A/ ,TURKEY & NOR?WE/ ,IRAQ 9 REC5T YE>S8 ,IS IT TRUE AS ! ,TURKS SAY ?AT Y\ HAVE BE5 M>G9ALIZ$8 

,OCALAN3 ,WE DON'T HAVE FI<T+ 9 ! T[NS1 BUT \R GU]RILLAS >E /RONG] ?AN BE=E4 ,WE >E FI<T+ EV]Y:]E1 EV5 ON ! ,BLACK ,SEA4 ,IT IS JU/ A ,TURKI% TACTIC TO SAY WE >E F9I%$4 ,:Y WAS IT NECESS>Y JU/ A FEW DAYS AGO TO S5D #b#e1 ,TURKI% TROOPS & #a1#a ,VILLAGE ,GU>DS AGA9/ A SMALL ,P,K,K UNIT NE> ,DIY>BAKIR8 ,WE HAVE BECOME EV5 MORE P[]FUL4 ,FIVE DAYS AGO 9 ,I/ANBUL1 #b1 PEOPLE MADE A DEMON/RATION = US 9 ,TAKSIM .<,SQU>E.> & JU/ YE/]DAY 9 ,GAZI ,OSMAN ,PA%A .<,I/ANBUL.>4 ,IF !Y REALLY ?9K ! ,P,K,K IS F9I%$1 WELL1 LET !M C>RY ON4 

,M,E,Q3 ,>E !RE ANY SIGNS ?AT ! MILIT>Y LEAD]S1 ! ULTIMATE S\RCE ( AU?ORITY 9 ,TURKEY1 >E WILL+ TO CONSID] A POLITICAL SOLUTION TO ! ,KURDI% PROBLEM8 

,OCALAN3 ,9 SECRET !Y >E SAY+ !Y WANT IT .<DISCRETE NEGOTIATIONS.>1 BUT NOT OP5LY4 ,ALL ! ,TURKI% >MY WANTS IS TO F9I% US4 ,! KEY IS 9 ! MILIT>Y4 

,M,E,Q3 ,IS !RE ANYONE 9 ! MILIT>Y :O CAN BR+ PEACE8 ,H[ AB\T ,DEPUTY ,*IEF ( ,/AFF ,G5]AL ,CEVIK ,BIR8 

,OCALAN3 ,I AM AFRAID HE IS PLAY+ A GAME LIKE .<=M] ,TURKI% PRIME M9I/] ,TANSU.> ,CILL]4 ,CEVIK ,BIR I ,AM]ICA'S MAN 9 ,TURKEY4 ,IF HE WANT$ TO1 HE C\LD BR+ A SETTLEM5T V]Y QUICKLY4 

,M,E,Q3 ,:AT HAPP5$ TO ! #aiif AGREEM5T ( COOP]ATION Y\ SIGN$ ) ,DEV ,SOL .<A LEFTW+ ,TURKI% T]RORI/ MOVEM5T N[ CALL$ ! ,REVOLUTION>Y ,PEOPLES ,LIB]ATION ,>MY ,FRONT OR ,D,H,K,P,C.>8 

,OCALAN3 ,WE TRI$1 BUT S9CE !Y KILL$ SOME PEOPLE 9 ,TURKEY LIKE .<PROM95T BUS9ESSMAN ,OZDEMIR.> ,SABANCI WE CANNOT WORK ) !M4 ,WE HAVE NO AGREEM5T ) ,DEV ,SOL4 ,IT IS OPPOS+ US ON MANY FRONTS4 ,DEV ,SOL IS AN 9/RUM5T ( ! ,TURKI% POLICE4 ,IT IS ! SAME SITUATION AS ) .<,ABDULLAH.> ,CATLI .<( ,SUSURLUK NOTORIETY.>4.<#a.> ,! ,TURKI% POLICE USE ,DEV ,SOL ON ! LEFT & .<US$.> ,CATLI ON ! RI<T4 

,M,E,Q3 ,:AT IS ! RELATION%IP BETWE5 ! ,P,K,K & ! ,ISLAMI/S 9 ,TURKEY8 

,OCALAN3 ,!RE IS NO COOP]ATION BETWE5 US4 ,CEVIK ,BIR IS SAY+ ?AT !RE IS ONLY PROPAG&A4 

,! ,P,K,K 

,M,E,Q3 ,:OM DOES ! ,P,K,K REPRES5T8 

,OCALAN3 ,CLE>LY1 ! ,P,K,K SPEAKS = ,TURKEY'S ,KURDS4 ,IF ANYONE D\BTS ?IS1 LET !M HAVE FAIR1 DEMOCRATIC ELECTIONS & SEE :AT HAPP5S4 ,BUT ! ,TURKS >E NOT EV5 BRAVE 5\< TO CONSID] ! CONCEPT4 

,M,E,Q3 ,>E !RE DIVISIONS )9 ! ,P,K,K8 

,OCALAN3 ,WE HAVE SUSPICIONS REG>D+ .<,P,K,K COMM&] ,SEMD9 ,SAKIK A4K4A4 ,P>MAKSIZ.> ,ZEKI4 ,SOMETIMES ,ZEKI SAYS WE %\LD NOT KILL SOLDI]S & O!R TIMES HE WANTS TO EV5 KILL CIVILIANS4 ,! FIR/ TIME CIVILIANS W]E KILL$ 9 ,TURKEY WAS BY ,ZEKI4 ,WE REMOV$ HIM FROM HIS DUTIES4.<#b.> 

,M,E,Q3 ,H[ >E Y\ ABLE TO MA9TA9 CONTROL ( Y\R ORGANIZATION FROM :AT APPE>S TO BE ?IS RELATIVELY ISOLAT$ PLACE8 

,OCALAN3 ,I KEEP 9 DAILY CONTACT ) MY ASSOCIATES BY TELEPHONE & RADIO4 ,/ILL1 !RE >E MAJOR ORGANIZATIONAL PROBLEMS 9 RUNN+ ! ,P,K,K & ITS RELAT$ ORGANIZATIONS ABROAD4 ,! ,P,K,K IS FI<T+ A BIG W> & IT IS V]Y DIFFICULT TO CONTROL PEOPLE4 ,AT ANY MOM5T SOMEBODY C\LD /AB Y\ 9 ! BACK4 ,IT IS MORE DIFFICULT TO *ANGE ! TRADITIONAL ,KURDI% WAYS ?AN TO SPLIT ! ATOM4 

,M,E,Q3 ,AT ITS FIF? CONGRESS 9 ,JANU>Y #a#i#i#e1 ! ,P,K,K REMOV$ ! HAMM] & SICKLE FROM ITS FLAG & CONT9U$ TO DEEMPHASIZE ITS E>LI] ,M>XISM4 ,:AT DO Y\ SAY TO ?OSE :O SAY ?IS WAS A COSMETIC *ANGE & ?AT Y\ >E /ILL A ,M>XI/1 A COMMUNI/8 

,OCALAN3 ,?IS IS JU/ PROPAG&A4 ,IT IS NOT POSSIBLE = US TO BE COMMUNI/S4 ,:Y DID ! ,SOVIET ,UNION COLLAPSE & ! ,UNIT$ ,/ATES HAS NOT8 ,IT IS BECAUSE COMMUNISM MADE ! GOV]NM5T EV]Y?+1 BUT ! HUMAN BE+ NO?+4 ,! ,UNIT$ ,/ATES REPRES5TS DEVELOPM5T4 

,M,E,Q3 ,:5 WILL ! NEXT ,P,K,K CONGRESS BE8 

,OCALAN3 ,AT ! 5D ( #a#i#i#h4 

,M,E,Q3 ,:AT ROLE WILL Y\ & ! ,P,K,K PLAY 9 ,TURKEY IF ! CURR5T /RUGGLE COMES TO A NEGOTIAT$ 5D8 

,OCALAN3 ,WE CAN PLAY AN ACTIVE ROLE4 ,IF !RE IS A F$]AL /ATE1 WE WILL WANT TO RUN IT4 ,! ,P,K,K IS ! VOICE ( ! .<,KURDI%.> PEOPLE4 

,M,E,Q3 ,WILL Y\ SEEK TO PLAY A ROLE 9 ,TURKI% POLITICS8 

,OCALAN3 ,YES1 ( C\RSE4 

,N,O,N-,P,K,K ,K,U,R,D,S 

,M,E,Q3 ,H[ CAN ! ,KURDS A*IEVE GREAT] UNITY8 

,OCALAN3 ,:5 ! ,TURKS /OP 9T]F]+1 ,KURDI% UNITY WILL BE !RE4 ,! ,TURKS SAY 0LET ONE DOG KILL ! O!R0 :5 !Y DEAL ) ! ,KURDS4 ,! ,KURDI% ,NATIONAL ,CONGRESS WILL BE A SOLUTION = ! ,KURDI% DIVISIONS4 

,M,E,Q3 ,:5 WILL Y\ CREATE ?IS CONGRESS8 

,OCALAN3 ,WE >E NOT V]Y F> FROM IT4 ,! ,P,K,K WILL BE ! BIGGE/ GR\P 9 IT4 ,!N ! ,P,U,K .<,JALAL ,TALABANI'S ,PATRIOTIC ,UNION ( ,KURDI/AN.>4 ,! ,K,D,P .<,KURDI/AN ,DEMOCRATIC ,P>TY ( ,B>ZANI.> IS NE>4 ,ALSO !RE >E MANY PROM95T ,KURDI% P]SONALITIES LIKE ,IBRAHIM ,AHMAD & ,MAHMUD ,OSMAN :O SUPPORT IT4 ,ONLY .<,KEMAL.> ,BURKAY1 .<! LEAD] ( ! ,KURDI/AN ,SOCIALI/ ,P>TY 7,TURKEY7.> IS NOT JO9+4 

,M,E,Q3 ,:AT DO Y\ ?9K ( .<! ,IRAQI ,KURDI% LEAD]S.> ,B>ZANI & ,TALABANI8 

,OCALAN3 ,!RE IS A MAJOR DIFF]5CE BETWE5 ME & ,B>ZANI & ,TALABANI4 ,! ,P,K,K IS A NEW MOVEM5T4 ,B>ZANI & ,TALABANI >E LIKE C>ICATURES ( ,SADDAM4 ,HAVE Y\ EV] SE5 A MORE POV]TY/RICK5 POLICY ?AN !IRS8 ,:Y DID !Y HAVE TO KISS ,SADDAM8 ,:]E >E !IR PR9CIPLES8 ,B>ZANI IS LIKE A COLLABORATOR4 ,:5 ,IRAN ASKS ,B>ZANI TO KILL ,IRANIAN ,KURDS1 ,B>ZANI DOES SO4 ,Y\ CANNOT CALL ,B>ZANI'S MOVEM5T A ,KURDI% MOVEM5T4 

,M,E,Q3 ,SO :O SPEAKS = ! ,KURDS8 ,:O WILL NEGOTIATE = ! ,KURDS8 

,OCALAN3 ,B>ZANI & ,TALABANI >E LIKE FEET OR >MS1 BUT ,I AM ! MA9 HEAD OR M9D4 ,! ,UNIT$ ,/ATES %\LD SPEAK ) ME1 ! M9D4 ,I HAVE TW5TYFIVE YE>S ( EXP]I5CE4 

,M,E,Q3 ,:AT HAPP5$ TO Y\R AGREEM5T ) ,KEMAL ,BURKAY 9 #a#i#i#c8.<#c.> 

,OCALAN3 ,IT /ILL /&S4 ,WE FOLL[ IT4 ,!RE IS NO DIFF]5CE BETWE5 \R VIEWS & ,BURKAY4 

,M,E,Q3 ,W\LD Y\ BE WILL+ TO LET O!R ,KURDI% ORGANIZATIONS PLAY A FUTURE POLITICAL ROLE 9 ,TURKEY AFT] ! ,P,K,K REA*$ A NEGOTIAT$ SETTLEM5T ) ,ANK>A8 

,OCALAN3 ,IF ,I AM ! PROBLEM1 ,TURKEY %\LD E/ABLI% A DIALOGUE ) ! O!R ,KURDI% ORGANIZATIONS ?AT >E \T !RE4 

,M,E,Q3 ,:OM DO Y\ HAVE 9 M9D1 ,S]AFETT9 ,ELCI .<A LONGTIME ,TURKI% POLITICIAN 9 ,TURKEY ( ,KURDI% E?NIC H]ITAGE.> OR ,H,A,D,E,P .<A LEGAL PRO,KURDI% P>TY 9 ,TURKEY.>8 

,OCALAN3 ,ELCI IS SUPPORT$ BY VIRTUALLY NO ONE4 

,! ,\,T,S,I,D,E ,W,O,R,L,D 

,M,E,Q3 ,:AT =EIGN SUPPORT DO Y\ GET8 

,OCALAN3 ,( C\RSE1 WE W\LD LIKE ! WORLD TO SUPPORT US4 ,IF ! ,UNIT$ ,/ATES W]E OBJECTIVE1 IT MU/ HAVE A MORAL CODE1 A S5SE ( HONOR1 & SUPPORT US4 ,BUT IF WE WAIT = SOME GOV]NM5T TO HELP US1 WE WILL BE F9I%$4 ,! ,P,K,K IS SELFRELIANT4 ,IT IS F9ANC$ ?R\< VOLUNT>Y DONATIONS FROM ,KURDS1 NOT ?R\< EXTORTION OR DRUG TRAFFICK+1 AS ! ,TURKS' PROPAG&A CLAIMS4 ,TURKEY RECEIVES A GREAT DEAL ( =EIGN HELP FROM MANY DIFF]5T S\RCES TO USE AGA9/ ! ,KURDS4 ,TURKEY IS LIKE ! WOMAN M>RI$ TO SEV5 DIFF]5T M51 SATISFY+ !M ALL AT ! SAME TIME4 

,M,E,Q3 ,9 ! TIME ( ,MULLA ,MU/AFA ,B>ZANI1 ,ISRAEL GAVE COV]T SUPPORT TO ! ,KURDS4 ,N[1 H[EV]1 ,TURKEY HAS CLOSE RELATIONS ) ,ISRAEL4 ,Y\R ?\<TS8 

,OCALAN3 ,! ,TURKS MADE AN AGREEM5T ) ,ISRAEL TO KILL ,KURDS4 ,?IS TIME ! ,TURKS >E GETT+ ! GRE5 LI<T FROM ,ISRAEL2 E>LI] IT WAS FROM ! ,UNIT$ ,/ATES4 

,M,E,Q3 ,Y\R ?\<TS ON ! ,UNIT$ ,/ATES8 

,OCALAN3 ,! ,UNIT$ ,/ATES IS A GREAT P[]4 ,IT IS A V]Y OBJECTIVE C\NTRY1 BUT IT DOES NOT HAVE POSITIVE KN[L$GE AB\T US4 ,TURKS LOOK UPON ! ,UNIT$ ,/ATES AS A *ILD BESIDE !IR [N ?\S&YE>OLD HI/ORY ( RUNN+ !IR [N EMPIRE4 ,BE=E Y\ KILL SOMEBODY1 Y\ %\LD ASK HIM4 ,WE DON'T WANT TOO MU*4 ,I DON'T ?9K ! ,UNIT$ ,/ATES & ,N,A,T,O WILL ACCEPT MASSACRES AGA9/ ! ,KURDS4 ,:Y DOES ! ,UNIT$ ,/ATES BECOME SO CONC]N$ AS SOON AS A FEW PEOPLE >E KILL$ 9 ,KOSOVO1 :ILE IT IGNORES ?AT ,KURDI/AN HAS BECOME AN EXTREME KILL+ GR\ND8 ,! REC5T VISITS ( .<ASSI/ANT SECRET>Y ( /ATE = DEMOCRACY1 HUMAN RI<TS & LABOR ,JOHN.> ,%ATTUCK TO ,TURKEY'S PRISON]S 9CLUD+ ,LEYLA ,ZANA IS A POSITIVE DEVELOPM5T1 BUT JU/ /RESS+ HUMAN RI<TS IS NOT 5\<4 ,! ,UNIT$ ,/ATES HELP$ ,CILL] )\T ANY CONDITIONS4 ,! ,AM]ICANS BELIEV$ ?AT ,CILL] WAS ONE ( !M BECAUSE %E HAD A ,U4,S4 PASSPORT & HAD BE5 $UCAT$ 9 ! ,UNIT$ ,/ATES4 ,! ,TURKS KILL$ MANY ,KURDS UND] ! COV] ( ,CILL]4 ,:5 ,CILL] WAS KILL+ ?OSE PEOPLE1 %E WAS SITT+ ON ,AM]ICA'S %\LD]S4 ,N[ ! ,TURKS >E SAY+ ,CILL] WAS RESPONSIBLE = ,SUSURLUK1 ?AT ,CILL] IS A SPY = ! ,AM]ICANS4 ,IT'S A BIG GAME4 .<LAU<S.> ,?IS IS ALSO V]Y DANG]\S POLITICS4 

,M,E,Q3 ,:AT DO Y\ SAY TO ! ,U4,S4 *>GE ?AT ! ,P,K,K IS A T]RORI/ ORGANIZATION8 

,OCALAN3 ,! ,AM]ICANS HAVE A BL9D SPOT ON ! ,P,K,K2 !Y ACT AS ,TURKEY'S M\?PIECE4 ,I AM ! REAL VICTIM ( T]RORISM4 ,! ,UNIT$ ,/ATES IS HANG+ ME )\T JUDG+ ME4 ,?IS IS AN IGNORANT1 BL9D POLICY )\T RATIONAL T]MS4 ,IT IS EXTRAJUDICIAL KILL+4 ,LET !M BR+ ME ! PRO(4 ,ONCE ,>AFAT & ,M&ELA W]E CALL$ T]RORI/S1 BUT LOOK AT !M N[4 ,:5 ,I (F] TO NEGOTIATE1 ,I AM CALL$ WEAK1 & :5 ,I %[ MY /R5G? ,I AM CALL$ A T]RORI/4 ,?IS IS 5ORM\SLY ILLOGICAL4 ,! ,P,K,K HAS MADE MI/AKES4 ,?IS IS TRUE4 ,BUT COMP>$ TO :AT ,TURKEY HAS DONE TO ! ,KURDS OV] ! YE>S1 IT %\LD BE OBVI\S :O IS ! REAL T]RORI/4 ,SUSURLUK HAS ! FACTS4 ,EV]Y?+ IS SAID 9 ! ,SUSURLUK REPORT4 

,M,E,Q3 ,:AT ONE MESSAGE W\LD Y\ DIRECT TO ,AM]ICANS8 

,OCALAN3 .<HESITATES.> ,! ,KURDS WANT ! CONDITIONS ! ,UNIT$ ,/ATES WANTS = ITSELF--DEMOCRACY1 EQUALITY4 ,WE DON'T WANT ANY?+ ELSE4 ,HAVE RESPECT = LIFE4 

,M,E,Q3 ,%\LD ! ,UNIT$ ,/ATES OR ! ,EUROPEAN ,UNION BE DIPLOMATICALLY MORE AGGRESSIVE ON ! ,KURDI% ISSUE1 P]HAPS AS ! ,UNIT$ ,/ATES HAS BE5 9 ! =M] ,YUGOSLAVIA & ,CYPRUS8 ,= EXAMPLE1 %\LD !Y TAKE A MORE ACTIVE ROLE TO BR+ AB\T A CEASEFIRE1 !N PU% = ,GOV]NM5T ( ,TURKEY ,P,K,K NEGOTIATIONS8 

,OCALAN3 ,( C\RSE1 !Y %\LD--IT'S ! ONLY SOLUTION1 BUT ONLY IF ,AM]ICA DOESN'T PLAY GAMES4 ,REC5T ,G]MAN WILL+NESS F9ALLY TO TALK TO ! ,P,K,K IS A GOOD MODEL4 ,BUT ,G]MANY DOES NOT SEE ITSELF AS HAV+ AN 9T]NATIONAL ROLE2 ! ,UNIT$ ,/ATES IS ! MA9 PROTAGONI/4 ,A DIALOGUE BETWE5 ! ,UNIT$ ,/ATES & ! ,KURDS IS MO/ IMPORTANT1 & IT %\LD BEG9 SOON] RA!R ?AN LAT]4 ,IT W\LD OP5 ! WAY TO A MO/ IMPORTANT *ANGE 9 ,U4,S4 POLICY4 ,?IS DIALOGUE1 BY ! WAY1 W\LD BE A RISK NOT JU/ = ! ,UNIT$ ,/ATES BUT = ME1 TOO4 ,IT W\LD 9CREASE ! NUMB] ( MY 5EMIES4 ,MAYBE MY HEAL? W\LD DO BETT] IF ,I /AY$ AWAY FROM ! ,UNIT$ ,/ATES6 .<LAU<S.> 

,P,],S,O,N,A,L 

,M,E,Q3 ,H[ MANY BRO!RS & SI/]S DO Y\ HAVE8 

,OCALAN3 ,I HAVE TWO Y\NG] BRO!RS1 ,OSMAN .<A HI<RANK+ ,P,K,K COMM&].> & ,MEHMET4 ,MEHMET LIVES 9 ,ADANA2 ,TURKEY >RE/$ HIM :5 HE TRI$ TO LEAVE ! C\NTRY4 ,I HAVE ?REE SI/]S2 TWO >E OLD] ?AN ,I4 ,!Y >E V]Y SIMPLE PEOPLE4 ,ONE SI/] LIVES 9 ,EUROPE4 

,M,E,Q3 ,& Y\R P>5TS8 

,OCALAN3 ,MY MO!R DI$ ! SAME WEEK ?AT ,OZAL DI$ .<9 ,APRIL #a#i#i#c.>4 

,M,E,Q3 ,:AT LANGUAGE DO Y\ SPEAK BE/1 ,TURKI% OR ,KURDI%8 

,OCALAN3 ,NATURALLY1 ,I KN[ ,TURKI% BETT] ?AN ,KURDI%4 

,M,E,Q3 ,:5 DID Y\ LIVE 9 ,ANK>A8 

,OCALAN3 ,I CAME TO ,ANK>A 9 #aiff & LEFT 9 ,JULY #a#i#g#h4 ,I DID NOT LIVE 9 ONE PLACE 9 ,ANK>A1 BUT WAS MOV+ >\ND4 

,M,E,Q3 ,:AT DID Y\ DO DUR+ Y\R ,ANK>A YE>S8 

,OCALAN3 ,I WAS A /UD5T4 ,I /UDI$ 9 POLITICAL SCI5CE = F\R YE>S BUT NOT V]Y S]I\SLY BECAUSE ,I DID NOT WANT TO GO TO ! MILIT>Y4 ,NORMALLY ,I W\LD HAVE GRADUAT$ 9 #a#i#g#d1 BUT ,I CONT9U$ = ANO!R F\R YE>S TO AVOID MILIT>Y S]VICE4 ,I SP5T MANY YE>S 9 ,ANK>A GO+ TO ! LIBR>IES & READ+ ALL ! BOOKS ON ! ,KURDS4 ,9 ! BEG9N+ ,I WAS NOT A ,KURDI% NATIONALI/4 ,I DID NOT ACCEPT SO EASILY BE+ A ,KURD4 ,I F\<T )9 MYSELF = A LONG TIME :E!R TO BE A ,TURK OR A ,KURD4 ,LAT] AFT] MY /UDIES1 ,I CAME TO ! CONCLUSION ,I %\LD CONSID] MYSELF A ,KURD4 

.<#a.> ,A ,NOV4 #aiif TRAFFIC ACCID5T 9 ! T[N ( ,SUSURLUK UNCOV]$ H[ ! ,TURKI% /ATE1 AMONG O!R MISDE$S1 HIR$ RI<TW+ CRIM9ALS ON ! LAM TO MURD] EXTRAJUDICIALLY HUNDR$S ( ,TURKI% CIVILIANS ( ,KURDI% E?NIC H]ITAGE 9 AN ATTEMPT TO SIL5CE !IR SUPPORT = ,KURDI% RI<TS & ! ,P,K,K4 ,9 EX*ANGE1 ! /ATE TURN$ A BL9D EYE TO !IR DRUG TRAFFICK+ & O!R CRIM9AL ACTIVITIES4 ,= AN ACC\NT1 SEE ,JAMES ,H4 ,MEY]1 0,CILL]'S ,SC&ALS10 ,MIDDLE ,EA/ ,QU>T]LY1 ,SEPT4 #a#i#i#g1 PP4 #b#i#c4 

.<#b.> ,ZEKI DEFECT$ TO ,MAS'UD ,B>ZANI'S ,KURDI/AN ,DEMOCRATIC ,P>TY1 AN OPPON5T ( ! ,P,K,K1 JU/ DAYS AFT] ?IS 9T]VIEW1 & %ORTLY AFT]W>DS WAS CAPTUR$ BY ,TURKI% COMM&OS4 

.<#c.> ,9 :I* ! ,KURDI% FACTIONS AGRE$ TO RESPECT EA* O!R'S EXI/5CE1 SETTLE !IR DIFF]5CES PEACEFULLY1 WORK T[>D E/ABLI%+ A COMMON FRONT1 & ADOPT A COMMON APPROA* T[>D ! ,REPUBLIC ( ,TURKEY4 

,FROM 3 ,!,AN>*I/,LIBR>Y4ORG4 

,*RONOLOGY 3 
,JUNE #a1 #aiih 3 ,9T]VIEW ) ,ABDULLAH ,OCALAN -- ,PUBLICATION4 
,JANU>Y #a#g1 #bb 3 ,9T]VIEW ) ,ABDULLAH ,OCALAN -- ,ADD$4 
,JANU>Y #c1 #bbb 3 ,9T]VIEW ) ,ABDULLAH ,OCALAN -- ,UPDAT$4 

 FILE G5]AT$ FROM 3  
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